June 2016 Honda and Acura sales results for the USA - All new Ridgeline comes out strong.

• AHM and Honda Division set new June sales records for light trucks as the all-new 2017 Ridgeline launches
• Honda cars continue to show gains, with across-the-board increases in June
• Acura NSX deliveries begin and the redesigned 2017 Acura MDX hits the market
• The all-new 2017 Honda Ridgeline pickup notched a robust 2,472 sales after just over one week on the market.
• CR-V, America's best-selling SUV over the past 20 years, set a new June sales record, rising 4.5 percent on sales of 29,615 units.
• The 10th-generation Civic lit up the compact car segment with another double-digit gain, posting sales of 31,810 for a gain of 10.7 percent in June.
• Accord posted a 4.8 percent increase for the month on sales of 28,806 as Honda celebrated the 40th birthday of the model, America's best-selling car over the past 40 years. The award-winning Accord lineup was joined this month by the all-new 2017 Accord Hybrid, boasting the highest EPA fuel economy ratings and most horsepower of any midsize hybrid sedan.

Honda
Continued robust demand for both cars and light trucks pushed the Honda brand to strong June results, including a new June record for trucks and substantial gains for Honda cars. On the truck side, sales of CR-V reached a new all-time June record, while Pilot and Odyssey each made notable gains for the month and the all-new 2017 Ridgeline got off to a strong start in its first weeks on the market. The hot-selling Civic nearly reached 32,000 sales while Accord topped 28,000 for the month, with added support from the just-launched 2017 Accord Hybrid.

"With the all new Ridgeline pickup and the redesigned Accord Hybrid back in the lineup, we're continuing to expand and strengthen our portfolio as we look toward a third straight year of record results," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division.

Acura
After the recent sell-down of 2016 RDX and MDX and 2017 models starting to fill the pipeline, Acura posted a 26.9 percent decline in June on sales 11,352 vehicles. With a newly refreshed 2017 Acura MDX hitting the ground and a special summer sales campaign launching soon, Acura looks toward an improving summer sales picture.

"With initial deliveries of the NSX under way and the redesigned 2017 MDX now hitting showrooms, we're looking ahead to a strong second half of the year," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division.

2017 Honda Freed spied and patent drawings revealed

The all new Honda Freed patent drawings show the earlier spy pictures are close to the final design.

This would make a cool replacement for the Honda Element that was sold in North America.

2016 Civic Turbo - Chipped to 225 hp

RaceChip Malaysia is offering a plug-and-play engine performance upgrade for Civics that are powered by the new 1.5 litre VTEC Turbo engine. In its factory configuration, the mill provides 173 PS and 220 Nm (162 ft-lb) of torque.

RaceChip claims that it can increase the Civic’s engine output to now produce up to 225 PS and 285 Nm (210 ft-lb). This is done via the company’s RaceChip Ultimate module, which is connected to the car’s FCI connector.

For those that require a little less bump in power, there is the RaceChip Pro2 unit that is said to increase output up to 215 PS and 275 Nm (202 ft-lb). Both tuning chips will also provide improved fuel savings by one litre per 100 km, according to RaceChip.

Note, this forfeits your warranty, and I doubt the CVT can handle the power.

Spied - New Civic Type R video - Testing on Nurburgring

SCOOP - new spy video of the 2017 Honda Civic Type R testing on the Nurburgring in Germany.

 Do we spy a hood scoop?

 Looks like dual exhaust on this spy picture, not the triple seen on previous spy photos.

Civic Turbo vs. Non Turbo real world fuel mileage comparison test

From Car and Driver.

To sniff out the real-world differences, we tested two Honda Civic sedans, each with the CVT, but one with the 174-hp turbocharged 1.5-liter four-cylinder and one with the 158-hp naturally aspirated 2.0-liter. By the EPA’s measure, the turbo Civic holds a 1-mpg edge on the highway with its 31/42-mpg ratings.

On a 300-mile loop of mixed highway, rural, and urban driving, the cars proved equally frugal by averaging 40 mpg. Digging deeper, we measured the steady-speed fuel consumption of the two Civics. Some of our results are astounding, such as the 50-plus-mpg both Civics achieve at 55 mph. The turbo wins across speeds ranging from 30 to 90 mph, with a 6-mpg advantage between 40 and 55 mph.

To generate the power required to maintain a particular cruising speed, any engine—small or large—must pump a corresponding amount of air. With equivalent gearing, the smaller engine requires a wider throttle opening to pump the same amount of air as a larger engine. Because pumping losses are lower with wider throttle openings, a smaller engine is more efficient.

Even at 90 mph, with the tach reading 2800 rpm, the turbo plays a minor role in cruise mode. This is precisely why nearly every carmaker will rely heavily on smaller-displacement, boosted engines to satisfy the fuel-economy mandate that requires a fleet-wide average of 54.5 mpg by 2025.

Spending the extra $1160 for the Honda’s turbo engine does have one clear advantage beyond efficiency: The additional power and torque clip 1.4 seconds from the zero-to-60-mph run and a full second off the quarter-mile time compared with the naturally aspirated alternative. But exceed the gentle, twinkle-toe throttle pressure we applied in our steady-speed tests and all efficiency bets are off. As boost rises, more fuel is injected and mileage drops. Precipitously.

Also from Car and Driver: To Blow or Not to Blow: Turbocharging vs. Natural Aspiration

 

Honda N600 with VFR800 engine swap - Autocross monster - Sounds WICKED!

A run around Buttonwillow Raceway


 Painted and overview


The engine in and walk around


The Build


BUY IT! And view an extensive photo gallery http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-honda-n600/

Honda Civic Type R Scoop and Spy Pictures

Looks like the next Civic Type R has been captured in the flesh.

Compare the above spy picture to the below Geneva concept car shown a few months ago.

A cleaner rear bumper, the triple exhaust that has been shown on the camouflage car photos, the front fender vents that match the camo test mule, and similar rear wing.

 

2016 Honda Civic Coupe - 600hp AWD rally car

Honda Civic Debuts with Podium Finish in Phoenix

• Sebastian Eriksson captures third-place finish in the Honda Civic's debut
• First podium finish of the 2016 season for Olsbergs MSE
• Honda scores its first points in the Red Bull GRC Manufacturers' Championship

Olsbergs MSE, with driver Sebastian Eriksson, scored Honda its first podium finish in The Red Bull Global Rallycross Championship in the 2016 Honda Civic Coupe's first weekend of competition.

In Round One on Saturday, Joni Wiman and Eriksson advanced to the final via a pair of second-place finishes in the semi-finals and for Eriksson, the Last Chance Qualifier. In the final, Wiman and Eriksson battled through the 10-car field. Both drivers experienced contact throughout the race, but Wiman managed to finish sixth while Eriksson finished ninth.

Round Two action began early on Sunday with Eriksson and Wiman powering the 2.0 Liter turbocharged Red Bull Honda Civics around the .929 mile, 12-turn Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park circuit. They advanced to the final by way of second- and third-place finishes in the first semi final.

In the final, Eriksson started on the inside of the three-car second row with Wiman on the outside. On the first lap, Eriksson charged past Patrik Sandell for third while Wiman ran in fifth position. The teammates maintained their spots until the third lap when Wiman suffered mechanical damage, forcing him out of the race.

Eriksson held off Sandell in the turbocharged Honda Civic Coupe to capture third place and Honda's first podium in Red Bull GRC. The podium finish places Honda in a tie for second place in Red Bull GRC's season-long manufacturers' championship.

After the doubleheader weekend in Phoenix, Red Bull GRC heads to Dallas, Texas for the third round of the 12-race championship, June 4. Live coverage begins at 2:30 p.m. EST on NBC.

Sebastian Eriksson (#93 Red Bull Honda OMSE) on today's victory: "I am really happy to give Honda its first podium in Red Bull GRC. The team [Olsbergs MSE] worked through the night fixing the car after the damage from Saturday's race. It was an absolute team effort to get this finish, but we're not satisfied. Dallas will be a great track for us and the Red Bull [Honda] Civic."

Nicholas Lee (National Advertising Manager, American Honda Motor Co, Inc.): "This weekend was a thrill for Honda and Honda Performance Development. To achieve a podium finish in our first weekend in Red Bull GRC speaks volumes to the hard work put in by OMSE, Red Bull and Honda. We're looking forward to continuing our success at the upcoming Global Rallycross event in Dallas."

2017 Honda CR-V confirmed? - Interesting Apple Car Play information hints yes

From CR-V owners club forum.  Member zroger73 found and posted this.

The HondaLink iPhone app received a minor update today. I was bored and reading the disclaimers when something caught my eye. Two different disclaimers make reference to a 2017 Honda CR-V. The second disclaimer is in reference to a "send to car" navigation feature that only just appeared on the 2017 Honda Ridgeline which gets the latest version of Honda's Display Audio system. This disclaimer seems to imply that the 2017 CR-V will be getting this same system. Since it is very unlikely Honda will update the current CR-V's Display Audio system for only one year model until all all-new model arrives for 2018, this find just really shifted my guess toward seeing an all-new 2017 CR-V this year rather than squeezing one more year model out of the current generation.

2017 Honda CR-V Artist Illustration from spy photos

Spy Photos of the all-new 2017 Honda CR-V

2017 Honda Freed Scoop

NEW: A recent spy photo of the all new Honda Freed testing in Indonesia.

Honda Freed is a JDM market minivan based on the Honda Fit/Jazz that is due replacement soon.  The Honda Freed replaced the Honda Mobilio back in 2008.  Several artist concepts shown here.  Are these different versions? Freed, Freed - Spada, and Freed - Spike

Big rumors are this new model will use the all-new Honda 1.0 liter straight 3 cylinder turbo.  Current Hybrid version uses the older Honda IMA + 1.5 liter.  New Freed will use the newer i-DCD hybrid from the Fit Hybrid.

Current Honda Freed Hybrid

Current Honda Freed SPIKE

2017 Honda Ridgeline Styling - Good Looks Matter

Honda needed only a silhouette to show that the polarizing "flying buttress" profile of the original Ridgeline was gone, replaced on the forthcoming 2017 model with the conventional cab/bed style found on nearly every pickup built in the last 100 years.

Honda learned the hard way with the original Ridgeline that you can be innovative with the features and bones of a truck, but not the design. It took that lesson to heart while developing the latest model, going to extraordinary lengths to get the visual details right.

The effort started early in the second-generation Ridgeline's design process. Honda held clinics in California and Texas with pickup buyers and showed them a variety of trucks without their brand labels.

The research found that buyers made assumptions about toughness and payload based on the gaps in the wheel arches between the tire and the truck body, and the height of the bed. If a pickup had a trailer hitch, people assumed it could tow more.


"Those things were honestly kind of "aha' moments or big surprises to us as a project team," Jim Loftus, a Ridgeline engineer, said at the media launch here in early May. "And of course, we went back and incorporated all of those messages into the next-generation Ridgeline."

Engineers tilted the Ridgeline up about half a degree from back to front to make the bed look like it was sitting higher. They also increased the gap between the wheel arch and tire by lifting up the chassis by about an inch.

"Based on the understanding that people are going to make some assumptions just visually, we said, you know what, we need to raise this up just to convey that image," Kerry McClure, chief engineer on the Ridgeline project, told Automotive News.

A trailer hitch is now standard on all new Ridgeline models, not only to convey a sense of toughness (all-wheel-drive models can tow 5,000 pounds), but also because the structural elements needed for a hitch were already in place.


The flying buttress style was partly due to a desire -- especially among executives in Japan -- to make it visually obvious that the Ridgeline was different and not a traditional body-on-frame truck.

There was also evidence at the time that a new school of truck design was emerging -- think Ford Explorer SportTrac or Chevy Avalanche. When the recession walloped the auto industry, buyers shied away from the unconventional, and Ridgeline sales plummeted.

"I think the challenge we faced with the old Ridgeline, part of it was the styling that wasn't so well-accepted," Jeff Conrad, general manager of Honda, said at the Ridgeline launch.

"And when the market did turn, it was very difficult to sustain that or get it back."


The company hopes annual sales will work their way up to the previous version's peak of 50,193.

But Honda is realistic about the kind of buyers it's going to attract. "We're not going after the buyer that is looking to take this vehicle and climb rocks up the side of the mountain," Conrad said.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160515/OEM04/305169938/hondas-ridgeline-lesson-looks-matter

2016 Honda Civic "Black Pack" option unveiled

From Honda in Australia!   Honda-spy is not a fan of this package.

The genuine Honda accessory pack is available across all five grades of the all-new Civic sedan range.

The Black Pack models see the fitment of black 17-inch wheels (upsized from 16s on the VTi and VTi-S – but those tyres cost extra), a black front bumper lip spoiler, black side skirts, black mirror caps, a black ducktail spoiler on the boot lid and a black grille.


The Black Pack has previously only been offered on the Jazz, but Honda Australia director, Stephen Collins, said that the brand expects a bit more widespread appeal for the Civic Black Pack.

“Many Honda customers really enjoy being able to individualize their cars,” said Collins. “The all-new Civic is already a stunning looking car but adding the eye-catching Black Pack edition really does set the car apart.”

Honda Australia has stated that there are about 200 pre-orders in for the new Civic sedan, which should jump to 300 by this month.

“The last time we had such strong interest from prospective customers was when we were launching the HR-V and it has now become one of the strongest competitors in the small SUV segment,” Collins said. “With the arrival of the Civic, it’s becoming clearer by the day that Honda has got its mojo back.”

The Civic will arrive in showrooms from June.

Plug-in Honda CR-V planned?

PHEVs not only help automakers fulfill their regulatory obligations but also can be cheaper to buy and own than basic hybrids, once the more generous government incentives are factored in, noted Dave Zuchowski, CEO of Hyundai Motor America.

Plug-in hybrids have been a rare bright spot in an otherwise dismal green-car industry. U.S. sales of PHEVs grew 40 percent in the first quarter of 2016, according to Edmunds.

Honda, with its recently announced goal of electrifying two-thirds of its vehicles by 2030, will also add plug-in hybrid variants of its core models, separate from its forthcoming Clarity line.

"Globally we're committed to offering a plug-in variant on our major core models in the future," John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., said in announcing the Clarity plans last month.

Honda's next-gen CR-V, due next year, is a likely candidate to get a plug-in hybrid variant.

It will share a platform with the current Civic and the next Accord, which is also due in 2017 and is also a likely landing spot for a PHEV powertrain.

Honda expands in Thailand with New Factory

Honda Holds Opening Ceremony for New Prachinburi Plant
Highly-efficient Environmentally-responsible New Auto Plant 

PRACHINBURI, Thailand (12 May, 2016) - Honda Automobile (Thailand) Co., Ltd. (HATC) today held the opening ceremony for its new plant located at Rojana Industrial Park in Prachinburi province. The all-new plant, equipped with Honda’s highly-efficient and environmentally-responsible production technologies, will serve to enhance Honda’s capability to deliver quality products for customers in Thailand and worldwide. The plant also will help strengthen the company’s role as one of Honda’s important automobile production hubs.

The Prachinburi plant has adopted Honda’s newest production technologies. This includes the world’s first cell production-style ARC (Assembly Revolution Cell) Line, incorporating flowing cell production-style production units in the main line. The plant also inherited advanced and eco-responsible technologies introduced at Honda’s Yorii Plant, Honda’s most advanced auto plant in Japan.

The Prachinburi plant started mass production with the all-new Honda Civic in March 2016, following the production start for plastic parts, and engine and engine parts which started in October 2015 and February 2016 respectively. The plant plans to produce sub-compact and compact models in the future to further enhance its competitiveness for the domestic market and the export.

2016 April Incentive Spending by manufacturer - Honda coming on strong.

Incentive Spending by manufacturer for April 2016

Nissan is still spending twice what Honda does as they are trying to gain market share. Fleet sales are growing too at other manufacturers as Honda continue to shun fleet sales.

Manufacturer	April 2016	% change vs. April 2015
BMW	$4,713	15.00%
FCA	$3,967	25.10%
Daimler	$3,911	-0.2%
GM	$3,909	14.00%
Ford	$3,423	24.00%
Nissan	$3,298	11.70%
Volkswagen Group	$3,276	16.60%
Industry	$3,021	13.30%
Kia	$2,839	5.80%
Hyundai	$2,201	-2.4%
Toyota	$2,017	13.80%
Honda	$1,631	-7.5%
Subaru	$572	-21.4%

Some analysts expressed concerns that some of April's sales gains came as a result of elevated discounts.

“Increased fleet sales and rising incentive spending among automakers remain the factors to watch, but retail demand appears to be holding steady, signaling the industry’s strong run isn’t over quite yet,” said Tim Fleming, an analyst for Kelley Blue Book.

Overall, TrueCar estimates April incentives rose 13 percent to $3,021 a vehicle from a year earlier, and fell 2.7 percent from March.

Automaker	April 2016	April 2015	Pct. chng.	4 months 2016	4 months 2015	Pct. chng.
Volvo Car USA	6,169	4,636	33.1%	22,530	18,358	22.7%
Tesla Motors*	2,250	1,900	18.4%	8,725	7,600	14.8%
Mitsubishi Motors N.A.	9,674	8,216	17.7%	34,886	32,006	9.0%
Acura	16,206	14,874	9.0%	54,081	54,518	–0.8%
Honda	132,623	115,194	15.1%	452,451	409,493	10.5%
Honda Motor Co.	148,829	130,068	14.4%	506,532	464,011	9.2%
Infiniti	10,432	9,979	4.5%	43,092	43,821	–1.7%
Nissan	113,429	99,869	13.6%	480,973	433,655	10.9%
Nissan North America	123,861	109,848	12.8%	524,065	477,476	9.8%
Mazda N.A.	26,195	24,123	8.6%	90,838	102,165	–11.1%
Subaru of America	50,380	47,241	6.6%	182,777	178,522	2.4%
Alfa Romeo	60	38	57.9%	229	255	–10.2%
Chrysler	22,843	27,704	–17.5%	88,349	109,637	–19.4%
Dodge	43,575	44,906	–3.0%	184,084	168,417	9.3%
Fiat	3,045	3,756	–18.9%	12,054	14,794	–18.5%
Jeep	84,298	71,759	17.5%	293,895	250,508	17.3%
Ram	45,810	40,864	12.1%	172,123	151,270	13.8%
FCA US	199,631	189,027	5.6%	750,734	694,881	8.0%
Maserati	1,066	1,060	0.6%	3,316	2,989	10.9%
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles**	200,697	190,087	5.6%	754,050	697,870	8.1%
Ford	219,963	213,518	3.0%	836,645	783,940	6.7%
Lincoln	9,776	8,134	20.2%	34,681	29,612	17.1%
Ford Motor Co.	229,739	221,652	3.6%	871,326	813,552	7.1%
Lexus	24,882	25,876	–3.8%	99,103	103,056	–3.8%
Scion	6,640	4,309	54.1%	24,882	16,287	52.8%
Toyota	179,603	173,144	3.7%	656,219	659,606	–0.5%
Toyota/Scion	186,243	177,453	5.0%	681,101	675,893	0.8%
Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A.	211,125	203,329	3.8%	780,204	778,949	0.2%
Mercedes-Benz	31,825	31,948	–0.4%	114,834	115,663	–0.7%
Smart USA	466	480	–2.9%	1,766	2,013	–12.3%
Mercedes-Benz USA	32,291	32,428	–0.4%	116,600	117,676	–0.9%
Jaguar	1,087	1,079	0.7%	6,084	5,415	12.4%
Land Rover	5,188	5,311	–2.3%	25,993	22,287	16.6%
Jaguar Land Rover N.A.	6,275	6,390	–1.8%	32,077	27,702	15.8%
Hyundai	62,213	68,009	–8.5%	235,543	240,038	–1.9%
Kia	56,508	53,282	6.1%	202,829	194,382	4.3%
Hyundai-Kia	118,721	121,291	–2.1%	438,372	434,420	0.9%
Buick	17,720	18,224	–2.8%	72,007	68,721	4.8%
Cadillac	11,236	15,801	–28.9%	46,869	52,976	–11.5%
Chevrolet	183,442	187,837	–2.3%	656,172	664,393	–1.2%
GMC	47,159	47,194	–0.1%	168,207	167,005	0.7%
General Motors	259,557	269,056	–3.5%	943,255	953,095	–1.0%
Audi	17,801	16,827	5.8%	59,761	56,925	5.0%
Bentley	110	242	–54.5%	372	782	–52.4%
Lamborghini*	86	84	2.4%	344	336	2.4%
Porsche	5,410	5,217	3.7%	17,648	16,647	6.0%
VW	27,112	30,009	–9.7%	96,426	109,248	–11.7%
VW Group of America	50,519	52,379	–3.6%	174,551	183,938	–5.1%
BMW	24,951	26,952	–7.4%	95,564	105,444	–9.4%
Mini	4,796	5,476	–12.4%	15,635	18,253	–14.3%
Rolls-Royce*	97	98	–1.0%	404	392	3.1%
BMW of N.A.	29,844	32,526	–8.2%	111,603	124,089	–10.1%

2017 Honda Ridgeline Test Drives from multiple sources.

Road and Track
The second-generation Ridgeline's docile ride and amazing convenience features make it a near-perfect pickup. Just leave your truck assumptions behind.

At Honda's drive preview in San Antonio, the benefits of this construction were made undeniably clear. On the road, the Ridgeline cruises in ultimate smoothness and comfort, cushioning away all road imperfections and cocooning you in a luxuriously quiet ride. Getting out of the Ridgeline and into one of the brand-new Toyota Tacomas or Chevy Colorados that Honda brought along for comparison was like stepping backward 30 years in chassis design. On worn Texas pavement, the Ridgeline absolutely erased the small-amplitude pavement ripples that juddered the Tacoma, and the body-on-frame groans that the two traditional trucks made over larger pavement imperfections were entirely absent in the Honda. 

Car and Driver
As before, the interior of the Ridgeline positively embarrasses the competition. It feels enormous and comfortable front and rear.

Neither does any competitor have the Ridgeline’s clever tailgate that either drops like a regular truck’s or swings open to the driver’s side like an old-fashioned station wagon’s. Nor do they have the Ridgeline’s in-bed trunk beneath the load floor. And most important, none of them come anywhere close to the Ridgeline’s ride quality.

The Honda Ridgeline enjoys a ride that no live-axle, body-on-frame vehicle could dream of.

No matter how it’s outfitted, the Ridgeline is a no-brainer of a truck: unmatched in smoothness and comfort, and full of innovation well beyond its unibody construction. It deserved far more sales than it netted in its inaugural generation. Here’s hoping this one realizes its full potential.

MotorTrend
The general attitude I sensed from the GM camp during the 2015 Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon launch event was, “Yeah … forget about the last Colorado and Canyon. We’re going to try this whole midsize truck thing again.” Toyota’s sentiment at the 2016 Tacoma soiree: “Yeah … we know what we’re doing with Tacoma. We don’t want to mess with it too much.” And most recently, the OEM perspective at the 2017 Honda Ridgeline get-together: “Yeah … we have a weird truck. We’re keeping it weird and making it better.”

Flattening the gas pedal doesn’t produce the typical rear-wheel-spinning drama you’d expect from a truck, but it feels strong once you’re going. The compromise is the Ridgeline uses an honest-to-goodness, not-by-braking torque-vectoring rear differential that promises fantastic real-world drive force without having to resort to low range or manual diff locking. In moments of need, up to 70 percent of available power is circulated to the rear. 

Automobile Magazine
If you hold prejudices that dictate what a truck’s nationality should be (this one’s built in Alabama, by the way), or how it should be made, or what it should look like, un-truck yourself. Give the Ridgeline a look. You just might find it’s as fun, capable, and practical as I did. 

The Car Connection
The Ridgeline does the best imitation of a passenger car inside, by a huge margin. Other trucks have narrower, chintzier cabins and lots of road noise. Most Ridgelines are as ritzy as most Pilots--which is very--and they're also very quiet.

The Ridgeline could end up being the safest truck on the road, but the IIHS hasn't given it a Top Safety Pick+ just yet. It's worth noting Honda has crash-tested the truck with a thousand-pound load in the bed, and measured intrusion into the cabin--a test no other truck builder has yet performed.

Autoblog
In the face of ever-bolder and blockier competition, the Ridgeline looks, dare we say, aerodynamically sound. It's all based on the rational desire for greater efficiency, comfort and convenience.

In the same way that a car-based crossover is a better choice for most families than a truck-based SUV, the Ridgeline is a better choice for a large swath of pickup buyers. It really is more comfortable, more fuel efficient, roomier and easier to live with than its primary competitors.

In a nutshell, the Ridgeline is a pickup truck for rational people. Problem is, pickup buyers haven't proven themselves to be rational people.